On the edge of my seat reading this, blood boiling at how many cliches I use! Haha this was helpful, I’m always surprised at how many standard phrases or cliches pop up in my writing and sometimes I do just try to rewrite the metaphor which rarely makes it better. Super helpful advice!
Ugh gah yea that’s hilarious actually, and a good call out because as a reader, I never really enjoy self deprecation but as a writer, I want people to know I’m in on the joke!
Yes! I know. It's so hard. And I'm so self-deprecating in real life that I don't even notice it most of the time. I've just recently noticed that I have to stop myself from saying, "I suck at parenting." Like, shut up...
Same. A by product of my self deprecation I noticed in person was that sometimes I’d think I was being relatable and I would sometimes actually insult the person I’m with. Because the situation maybe was relatable but then I went ahead and started to criticize myself. Like, “I got balloons for the party which I know is so stupid” and someone is like wait, I like pink balloons…I didn’t know they were stupid.
So on point. I really like what you said about The Glass Castle, how Walls lets us have our own feelings about all these goings-on, reporting on what happened rather than how she felt about it. I keep that in mind, often.
I hadn't thought about self deprecation in the context of the more knowing narrator commenting on the past self. I'll be watching out for that now.
Rob, I am always thinking about The Glass Castle, and how that style of writing is so compelling.
The self-deprecation is new for me, too. And I still do it a lot (I did it in this post multiple times... thankfully I have a good editor in my husband). It's good and sometimes necessary for the present you to comment on the past you, but there is a way to do it, and it's not by condemning the past self or celebrating the present self.
Thank you for sharing Susan's post! That's hilarious how many times she wrote those words in her book.
…lots of great lessons in here…one i find myself correcting a lot is never right you or us or we unless you meaning I can back it up AND is it truer than the I/ME version…WE all want to think OUR thoughts are…oops there I go again…
Your breakout on this very topic in WoP still lives in my head rent free, haha! "Just say what happened - not how it made you feel." Seems so simple until you try it. It helps me so much on a regular basis :)
Lol Janelle! It does seem simple until you try it, and you realize your feelings are all over the page. I've found the more I do it, the more naturally I've stopped writing my feelings (so much).
Okay i want to do a zoom call on this! I need help knowing when i do this… sometimes even in your examples im like wait— what was wrong there?! More to discuss soon!!
I felt similar to Michelle about my own realization of my overuse of cliches but to some extent doesn’t including some of those relatable “mirror moments” allow the reader to feel seen and like they’re not the only one?
Point 2 of pushback: it’s horribly hard to cut the vivid moments you recall but think are boring to the reader. Those moments still matter to you and your story. You’re forcing a lot of reading between the lines by cutting so much. Is that really necessary?
Question 3: “I should not separate myself from her [my past self].” Wouldn’t this still be useful to show transformation, or in the least, a shift of taste? I’ve found separating from past self can be useful to show internal monologue and shifts in perspective.
I think there's always nuance and exceptions in writing, but I'll try to address these points:
1. If the mirror moment is obvious then no, I don't think it makes the reader feel seen, at least I know it doesn't make me feel seen when I read them. I read moments similar to my mirror moment in numerous sobriety memoirs and they were all the same—stale and obvious, like the writer wasn't letting me into the real vulnerability of the moment. Really vulnerable moments should be scary to share. I don't think there's anything scary about looking at yourself in the mirror and realizing you need to change.
2. Why is it horribly hard to cut these moments? Have you tried it? If you're writing a story and publishing it, the story is no longer about you and what matters to you, it's about what a person can gain from reading it. Leaving out the obvious moment does not force the reader to read between the lines. Readers are very, very smart. They get it. And if you don't force feed-the reader with obvious things, they will trust you and root for you.
3. You should definitely insert present knowledge about the past, sometimes. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to do this, and when, but it should never be in a way that condemns your past self or celebrates your present self. If I just wrote that I did an outfit change at my birthday party and I thought it was so cool, I don't need to add that I'm embarrassed by that. You, reading it, understand how lame that is without me having to spell it out for you. As the authors of Good Prose: The Art of Nonfiction write, "...what was silly and strange and embarrassing about my behavior would be plain enough without commentary."
On the edge of my seat reading this, blood boiling at how many cliches I use! Haha this was helpful, I’m always surprised at how many standard phrases or cliches pop up in my writing and sometimes I do just try to rewrite the metaphor which rarely makes it better. Super helpful advice!
Michelle, I know! Cliches are the natural, go-to thoughts.
Embarrassingly, the first draft of this post was FULL of self-deprecation. Sam actually wrote in the doc, "Are you trying to be ironic?"
Ugh gah yea that’s hilarious actually, and a good call out because as a reader, I never really enjoy self deprecation but as a writer, I want people to know I’m in on the joke!
Yes! I know. It's so hard. And I'm so self-deprecating in real life that I don't even notice it most of the time. I've just recently noticed that I have to stop myself from saying, "I suck at parenting." Like, shut up...
Same. A by product of my self deprecation I noticed in person was that sometimes I’d think I was being relatable and I would sometimes actually insult the person I’m with. Because the situation maybe was relatable but then I went ahead and started to criticize myself. Like, “I got balloons for the party which I know is so stupid” and someone is like wait, I like pink balloons…I didn’t know they were stupid.
OMG. This is horrifying. I definitely do this.
So on point. I really like what you said about The Glass Castle, how Walls lets us have our own feelings about all these goings-on, reporting on what happened rather than how she felt about it. I keep that in mind, often.
I hadn't thought about self deprecation in the context of the more knowing narrator commenting on the past self. I'll be watching out for that now.
This piece pairs beautifully with Susan Orlean's latest on the overuse of "this" and "still": https://susanorlean.substack.com/p/just-and-still
Rob, I am always thinking about The Glass Castle, and how that style of writing is so compelling.
The self-deprecation is new for me, too. And I still do it a lot (I did it in this post multiple times... thankfully I have a good editor in my husband). It's good and sometimes necessary for the present you to comment on the past you, but there is a way to do it, and it's not by condemning the past self or celebrating the present self.
Thank you for sharing Susan's post! That's hilarious how many times she wrote those words in her book.
…lots of great lessons in here…one i find myself correcting a lot is never right you or us or we unless you meaning I can back it up AND is it truer than the I/ME version…WE all want to think OUR thoughts are…oops there I go again…
Lol it's so hard to get it right, CansaFis!
This is possibly one of my greatest pet peeves in writing
…we all do it…doh!…
hahaha
Your words float across the page like clouds in the sky 😂
I had to skim all the cliches because I felt sick. Mostly because I've written them.
Hahaha. I know, Annabel, I know.
Your breakout on this very topic in WoP still lives in my head rent free, haha! "Just say what happened - not how it made you feel." Seems so simple until you try it. It helps me so much on a regular basis :)
Lol Janelle! It does seem simple until you try it, and you realize your feelings are all over the page. I've found the more I do it, the more naturally I've stopped writing my feelings (so much).
Okay i want to do a zoom call on this! I need help knowing when i do this… sometimes even in your examples im like wait— what was wrong there?! More to discuss soon!!
Loved this
Please! Do you mean the self-deprecation? That's a newer discovery, and I'd love to go deeper into the whys of not using it.
Yes!
I felt similar to Michelle about my own realization of my overuse of cliches but to some extent doesn’t including some of those relatable “mirror moments” allow the reader to feel seen and like they’re not the only one?
Point 2 of pushback: it’s horribly hard to cut the vivid moments you recall but think are boring to the reader. Those moments still matter to you and your story. You’re forcing a lot of reading between the lines by cutting so much. Is that really necessary?
Question 3: “I should not separate myself from her [my past self].” Wouldn’t this still be useful to show transformation, or in the least, a shift of taste? I’ve found separating from past self can be useful to show internal monologue and shifts in perspective.
I think there's always nuance and exceptions in writing, but I'll try to address these points:
1. If the mirror moment is obvious then no, I don't think it makes the reader feel seen, at least I know it doesn't make me feel seen when I read them. I read moments similar to my mirror moment in numerous sobriety memoirs and they were all the same—stale and obvious, like the writer wasn't letting me into the real vulnerability of the moment. Really vulnerable moments should be scary to share. I don't think there's anything scary about looking at yourself in the mirror and realizing you need to change.
2. Why is it horribly hard to cut these moments? Have you tried it? If you're writing a story and publishing it, the story is no longer about you and what matters to you, it's about what a person can gain from reading it. Leaving out the obvious moment does not force the reader to read between the lines. Readers are very, very smart. They get it. And if you don't force feed-the reader with obvious things, they will trust you and root for you.
3. You should definitely insert present knowledge about the past, sometimes. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to do this, and when, but it should never be in a way that condemns your past self or celebrates your present self. If I just wrote that I did an outfit change at my birthday party and I thought it was so cool, I don't need to add that I'm embarrassed by that. You, reading it, understand how lame that is without me having to spell it out for you. As the authors of Good Prose: The Art of Nonfiction write, "...what was silly and strange and embarrassing about my behavior would be plain enough without commentary."